IP Auto: Andy LaRoche

Yesterday a couple of my friends and I went to see the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs (AAA Phillies) take on the Buffalo Bisons (AAA Blue Jays).  I got to the stadium about an hour early to try and grab some autos.  It was largely a failure though.  Two players from the Iron Pigs (Adam Morgan and Tyson Gillies) were signing outside the Majestic store prior to the game, but the line was capped off at 6:15pm (a full hour before gametime).

Many of the Bisons players remained silent when fans approached them for autographs.

Former Royals prospect Clint Robinson signed for a short time for a few fans before starting his normal game day rituals.  Several other players would sign for a few fans then scatter off to do their pre game workouts.  I didn't bring many cards with me mainly because I was using this game as an opportunity to just hang with my friends and watch a game as summer came to a close.

The two players I was hoping to graph strictly for their Pirates ties were Buffalo Bisons 3B Andy Laroche and relief pitcher Brad Lincoln.  Both players were well regarded prospects in the Pirates franchise at one time.  Lincoln came out of the dugout and immediately ran to the bullpen allowing no time to even attempt an autograph.

2009 Heritage Andy LaRoche IP AUTO 

Andy Laroche signed a few cards for everyone though including the card you see above.  He had a terrible game at the plate grounding into two inning ending double plays and also striking out with a runner in scoring position.  Nevertheless I am grateful that Andy was willing to sign for the fans and am happy to add this IP Auto to my collection.

Is this a 1/1 auto? Probably not...

The quality control of baseball cards is terrible.

I notice a lot of companies even ones that are named Topps make an awful habit of screwing up names for Pirates players.
Who the hell is Pat Maholm?
Why is that bum shortstop Ronny Cedeno pictured on the future right field star Jose Tabata's card?

Why is Andy pictured on Adam LaRoche's card?  Andy and Adam despite being brothers don't exactly look alike.  I don't own the above card, but would like to add it to my collection one day through a trade, but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend money for a card with Andy's face and Adam's name on it.

But this card below absolutely baffled me so bad I had to overpay for it.  I already have a lot of Daniel McCutchen autographs.  I almost have his nameplate from 2010 Finest completed (just need the E).  I've got about half a dozen other autographs from him on top of those 8 lettered autographed cards.  I made a promise with myself after my last trade with Greg that the only other DCutch auto I would buy would be that darn letter E to complete the nameplate.  I don't care if it's a $1 I'm not buying it.  Well, I apparently lied to myself and just had to buy this 2009 Tristar autograph that features Andrew McCutchen pictured on Daniel McCutchen's card.  The card cost me $2 shipped, but I think it was worth it for the chuckles.

On top of screwing up the front, Tristar also screwed up the back by saying that he was drafted by Pittsburgh.  DCutch came over from the Yankees as part of the Xavier Nady trade in 2008.

To further clarify my black and white point of needing better quality control at card companies I present the below image which shows Andrew and Daniel together during their time with the Indianapolis Indians when this card would have been produced.  They don't exactly look similar do they?

Are the Pirates moneyballing?

Moneyball featuring Brad Pitt came out today on DVD.  I haven't bought my copy yet on bluray, but I did see the movie in the theatre.  I thought that the movie was really good for a mainstream audience and showed how tough the business side of sports can be especially when trying to compete against the Red Sox and Yankees in the American League.  Having the movie focus entirely on sabremetrics would have been a bore so I'm glad that they focused more on the thoughts and feelings that Billy Beane was going through during this transition. 

I bring this up because a lot of people bash the Pittsburgh Pirates.  I mean let's be honest, they've had 19 losing seasons after all.  This doesn't mean that they aren't trying to get better.  Signing free agents like Albert Pujols or CJ Wilson would cripple the team if they were to not perform above expectations.  A similiar situatin happened in Texas awhile ago when they signed Alex Rodriguez to that ridiculous contract.  Texas didn't make the World Series and the team went bankrupt.  Now Texas is doing good, but it was because they built a Championship caliber team through the draft and international signings.  They built a strong young core of players and have been piecing things together with veterans to fill the gaps. 

The Pirates also have a strong young core of players at the major league level in Andrew McCutchen, Neil Walker, and Jose Tabata.  The jury is still out on Pedro Alvarez.  Alex Presley looks like he will be above replacement level in the outfield and there's lots of talented pitching coming up in the next few years.  Unfortunately, I believe that some of the young core will be traded off by then.  Why?  Because they won't be competing for a championship and would like to remain under the payroll budget saving up money for when they are finally close and can go out and get a key free agent.

Now....getting back to the Moneyball movie.....

In the movie, Billy Beane expresses interest in Ricardo Rincon and says that he wanted to get him for $1 million.  Rincon was playing for Cleveland at the time, but he got there from being traded by the Pirates for Brian Giles.

Brian Giles, all domestic abuse cases aside, was a phenomenal player for the Pirates and broke out in a big way when he came to Pittsburgh.  He was an all star in 2000 & 2001.  He was the first player in club history to hit .300 with 30+HR and drive in more than 100 runs in back to back seasons.  He was sensational!!!!!

After playing 4 1/2 seasons with the Bucs, Giles was traded to his hometown San Diego Padres for Oliver Perez and Jason Bay along with a minor leaguer whose name escapes me. 

We all know the story of what happened to Jason Bay.  He went on to win the NL rookie of year in 2004.  He was an All-Star for the Pirates in 2005 and 2006.  Then he was involved in a blockbuster trade with the Red Sox sending Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers and the Pirates receiving 4 players that amounted to nothing (yet).  They included former 1st Round draft picks: Bryan Morris, Craig Hansen, Brandon Moss, and Andy Laroche.  I was a huge fan of Jason Bay while in Pittsburgh and still root for him with the Mets.  He's just a very classy hard working ball player.

Oliver Perez lead the NL in K/9 in 2004, the same year that Jason Bay broke out to win NL ROY.  Oliver's K/9 was an astonishing 10.97 and finished with a 2.98 ERA (tied with Roger Clemens that year).  He was a true ace pitcher, but got little run support (less than 2 runs per outing) and finished with a 12-10 record.  The next two seasons were not so kind and saw Perez begin to be hit hard as he posted an ERA around 6 for each season.  In 2006 he was sent to the Mets with pitcher Ramon Hernandez (a journeyman relief pitcher) for Xavier Nady.

Xavier Nady didn't do much of anything while in Pittsburgh, but he was viewed good enough along with reliever Damaso Marte to net Jeff Karstens, Jose Tabata, Ross Ohlendorf, AND Daniel McCutchen.  I've talked before about my love for the way Jose Tabata plays so I won't go into details again regarding that.  Daniel McCutchen is a very versatile pitcher and can be used to throw to one batter or do a spot start or pitch 6 innings in relief in needed.  He could be a future closer and demonstrated this year that he keeps getting better.  Jeff Karstens broke out in a big way last year as he mixed up all his off speed pitches to be in the top 10 in ERA.  Ross Ohlendorf, well.....he's been released because of two injury plagued seasons.

So I finish with this thought.  The Pirates have been playing to their market, but they have yet to get enough pieces in place to field a team that can be above .500.  I truly do think that GM Neal Huntington has done a sensational job building through the draft and just can't wait to see a team that is all homegrown take the field in 2013 and beyond. 

So to recap, 1 relief journeyman pitcher (Ricardo Rincon) helped net
4 All-Star appearances (2 by Brian Giles & 2 by Jason Bay)
a 2004 NL ROY(Jason Bay)
a 2004 Cy Young candidate (Oliver Perez)
a 2010 NL ROY candidate (Jose Tabata)
a 2011 top 10 ERA leader (Jeff Karstens)
the 3rd smartest professional sports player (Ross Ohlendorf)
more pieces for future trades

Now that I've talked waaaayyyy tooooo much, I will shut up and show off some cards that I haven't spot lighted yet of players all discussed in this post.  As a side note, I have finally updated my Jason Bay relics/auto hits.  I currently have 21 and hope to double that by the end of 2012.  I'm actually hoping to finish with 44 (his current Mets jersey number)

Brian Giles 2002 Leaf Statisical Standout BAT

2003 UD City All-Stars Mario Lemieux & Brian Giles JERSEY

 Jason Bay 2007 UD Black Lustrous 15/50 AUTO

 Jason Bay 2007 UD Black 31/75 AUTO, 4 JERSEY (one which is 2 color)

 2008 UD Generations Ralph Kiner BAT Jason Bay JERSEY

Jason Bay 2006 UD EPIC SWATCH JERSEY 15/50

 Adam & Andy Laroche 2009 Upper Deck SPX Winning Materials DUAL JERSEY

Brandon Moss 2008 & 2009 Topps Gold

Oliver Perez 2005 Upper Deck Origins ATUO

Xavier Nady 2007 UD Masterpieces Stroke of Genius AUTO

Jose Tabata 2011 Topps Next 60 AUTO

Daniel McCutchen 2010 Topps Triple Threads AUTO JERSEY 21/25

PTR: Where are they now? It's all in hindsight....

2010 Signature Sensations #SS-AL Andy Laroche AUTO

2009 UD Winning Materials Jason Bay/Manny Ramirez JERSEY

Jose Bautista 2005 Bowman Draft Futures Game Jersey 

yes I know I've shown this card as recent as 2 weeks ago, but I have more followers now that may have missed it.  Besides, it's my only Bautista Pirate card I have that's not a dull base card.


On this day in 2008 recently acquired Andy Laroche, from the Jason Bay/Manny Ramirez blockbuster trade, was officially named the Pirates everyday starting 3rd basemen and the Pirates optioned Jose Bautista to the minor leagues.  It's easy for fans to blame the Pirates front office for "not making the right move" in regards to the prospects aquired for Bay.  It's also easy for fans to say the Pirates should have kept Jose Bautista.  Heck, I've said it before, Jose Bautista is an absolute beast NOW and was traded for minimal return.  The reality though is that the Pirates payroll in 2008 was very high for where they were competing at and the farm system was absolute crap.  There was no depth at all in the organization.  They needed to completely overhaul the organization from top (Jason Bay) to bottom (aquiring players in Low A ball with high upside - Bryan Morris).  The Pirates are still technically rebuilding, but are actually looking for veteran upgrades instead of trading veterans for prospects like years past.

From Baseball America, Andy Laroche was a guy that in 2008 was a highly coveted top prospect in the Dodger organization.  He was cited as organization's best player in 2007. The only player above him was Clayton Kershaw. 

What does all this mean????

Well in hindsight now, it's easy to say that the Pirates should have tried to acquire better talent now than what they got in trades like the Bay or Bautista or Freddy Sanchez deals.  The fact of the matter is though that the Pirates needed to get bad (albeit really bad in 2010) before they could get better.  Would I like to have Jose Bautista in the Pirates lineup now.  Hells fricking yeah.

Was he worth $1.8 million dollars in 2008 with a possible increase to arbitration the following year?
Let's see .242/.325/.404 slash line
77 K to 38 walks
12 HR with 44 RBI

I say no way.  Andy Laroche at the time could have put up similiar numbers given the same amount of plate appearances for $325K  That's smart "moneyball" on the Pirates half in 2008.  Not so great looking now though.

So where does that leave the Pirates now regarding the Jason Bay trade that eventually bumped Jose Bautista out of his starting job by acquiring Andy Laroche?
From Boston
Craig Hansen's final MLB game was in 2009
Brandon Moss is playing for the Phillies AAA team
From LAD
Andy Laroche designated for assignment by Oakland A's in 2011
Bryan Morris, the last hope of making something positive out of the Jason Bay trade

2010 Bowman Futures Game 116/199

2011 Bowman Futures Game 79/99

Bryan was selected to the 2010 Futures Game for his very strong start in FSL A Bradenton. He is currently in AA Altoona and has started to be converted to a shutdown bullpen guy. 

To show how much prospects can change, it should also be noted that in 2008 a current Pirate was highly ranked by Baseball America as the Dodgers' 7th best prospect.  James McDonald, acquired last year for a 1 month rental of Octavio Dotel, was cited as the Dodgers' organization's best control and best curveball in 2008.


Xavier Paul, claimed off waivers in 2011 by the Pirates, was cited as best outfield arm in Dodgers Organization 2008.  His aggressive baserunning this season for the Bucs has won 2 games by my count so far despite what WAR says. 




After saying all that I'm exhausted and still excited for what the 2011 Pirates are going to bring.  2011 National League All Star Kevin Correia is on the mound tonight vs. the Brewers.  Let's go Bucs!